460 comments

My Son is Ready for Early Retirement

Like father, like son?

Like father, like son?

I suppose I can’t blame him, because this IS pretty nice. It’s Monday morning, and I just dropped him off at school, rode the mountain bike and trailer back home through the deep and fluffy remnants of the latest snowstorm, and settled in with this laptop and my sunny, empty house to compose my thoughts for you. Greg Reitan is playing some wicked Jazz piano in the background via Pandora, and my belly is nicely satisfied with fine coffee and a bowl of almonds. The rest of the world is out commuting on an icy highway or dialing into the conference call while seated in the cubicle. This is the life for me.

But is it the life for an eight-year-old?

Although he has made it to the second half of second grade with great success, my boy has softly been singing an underlying chorus of “I don’t want to go to schooool!” since long before Kindergarten. The song fades away on the good days, because there are occasional bits of learning and he has several great friends among his classmates. But then he gets a taste of freedom again, like the two-week Christmas holiday that just ended an hour ago, and it reminds him of how much more he enjoys not being in school. Our holiday together was a beautiful blur of late nights, family board games, friends, movie nights, adventures at the creek, sunshine, drawing pictures, and making songs with Ableton Live and elaborate automated buildings in Minecraft. When he realized it was truly over last night, he cried so much that he had trouble getting to sleep.

I can’t blame him, because this feeling about school and organized activites in general tends to run in my side of the family. I remember finishing the nine-year sentence in my own small town K-8 elementary school wondering if I had learned anything during the entire session. High school became more interesting because of some inspiring teachers in Science, Math, and English (and because of the girls). And Engineering school, while painful, was motivating because I knew there was freedom and an excellent paycheck waiting right at the end of the tunnel. But since finishing that whole affair, I have never looked back other than to marvel at how different than me the folks who pursue graduate degrees and PhDs must be. A brilliant nephew of mine finds himself in a similar boat: my sister described his school years as “A quiet rebellion of boredom”, although he has awakened now that he is among other whiz kids in the Computer Science program of his country’s top university.

Some of us just really enjoy our freedom, and we use that freedom for constant learning of the things we really want to learn, and creating the things we really want to create. This is surely why I quit even the relatively free environment of the corporate office: to get all my time back for truly self-guided pursuits. And I suspect this personality type is common among the Mustachians as well: you don’t have any trouble keeping yourself busy, the only issue is freeing yourself from the busywork that others keep assigning to you.

But how do we handle it when a kid discovers this obvious source of joy less than 3000 days into his life? Under the current regime, the poor lad is scheduled for about fourteen additional years of school, at which point he’ll to need work and save for another decade to earn his financial independence. I could allow him to cheat the system by setting aside a trust fund that made work (and school) optional at any point, but I do not want to deny him the soul-building satisfaction of good old-fashioned hard work, and the incomparable advantage of having to work for what you get.

But at the same time, there is surely some benefit I can pass on from this clearly advantaged position. Compared to my own parents at a similar stage in 1982, Mrs. MM and I have much more secure finances, one child instead of four, unlimited free time to spend with him, and the resources of the Internet from which to pull knowledge. There are thousands of other parents of bright but slightly bored kids reading this who might have some ideas. With so many advantages, it would be a cop-out for me to just leave my son to follow exactly the same path I walked 32 years before him, without at least questioning The Rules.

We would not be the first people to do so. I was recently inspired by this TED talk by Ken Robinson, which eloquently explains that despite its best efforts, the school system does tend to crush creativity. Adding to that idea, there’s this ambitious 13-year-old lad that did his own TEDx Talk about a self-guided “Unschooling” or “Hackschooling” education.

By now you’ve probably learned that a formal university education is only one of many paths to a good life. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were dropouts. Free and inexpensive learning spots like the Khan Academy and Treehouse abound. My own posts on jobs without a degree are some of the most widely read on this site. Heck, there is a 23-year-old college dropout staying in my guest suite right now, who founded his own successful company several years ago which now allows him to lead a life with greater freedom than I had at that age. He’s here to have an adventure and to learn new skills, in a completely non-academic environment. But all this still leaves the question of how to motivate your very young kid without denying him the benefits of school.

So we don’t have the answers yet. My boy is excited that he has gained admission to a special program within the school that allows kids in this situation to leave class twice per week and gather with a special teacher to cover more interesting material. We could try an Unschooling experiment next year, spending a portion of it living in another country (I’m partial to New Zealand myself, and then perhaps Ecuador the next year). The regular school is well-run and has the best intentions, but learning formalized material in a big group is very slow and is bound to leave a certain portion of the kids spending 90% of each day waiting for what is next. Or missing recess because some other kids were talking when the teacher had declared that talking was not allowed. And the charter and private schools I’ve encountered around here all seem to emphasize even more academic rigor and discipline, rather than more freedom to roam and learn.

Unfortunately, I think that purely hanging around at home would be unsuccessful. We could learn much more quickly, but there are only three of us here – not enough people to provide a truly rounded social education. Plus there is the selfish issue: both my wife and I benefit greatly from having a few hours on weekdays to do our own things. After all, this blog is not going to write itself.

What do you think? Have you encountered this problem with your own children?

Ideally, we could gather and form communal unschooling environments with five or six cool kids, and the problem would be solved. I could teach them writing and carpentry, you could teach them filmmaking and math, and some of our other friends would handle the sports, physics, chemistry, and whatever else they want to learn. We’d take plenty of field trips as well.

The more conservative standardized-test-loving government officials and administrators of the world might frown upon us, but we’d probably end up with a batch of very creative, happy, and motivated young adults, which is really the primary job that we sign up for when we produce these fine little creatures.

  • Ricky January 6, 2014, 5:41 pm

    You’re in a difficult conundrum. You don’t want your boy to have to take the same path you did since you’re now in such a comfortable position but at the same time you feel like he will be better off and think the right thoughts if he takes the sake path you did.

    I say definitely remain in school at least until high school. I think university should be an option for him. I would say do uni only if there is a subject he is truly passionate about. Most people don’t get careers in what they studies specifically so why waste that time and money? I feel as though my degree has benefitted me but at the same time I know I would have a career in my chosen field (state of the IT job market).

    As far as work goes, I would encourage him to do what makes him happy and go where he needs to go to achieve that happiness. I think you’re right in omitting the trust fund. Money is there for him if he needs it and he ends up with a good head on his shoulders (which I’m sure he will).

    Reply
  • Susan January 6, 2014, 6:17 pm

    Homeschooling has always been very polarizing … We have been homeschooling since 1995 (large family) and have 3 graduates so far. It has been a joy and delight to homeschool my children!

    Socialization is a moot point – there are more social opportunities available each and every day than your child could possibly participate in! I’m sure that Colorado is a hotbed of homeschooling and unschooling The goal of socialization is to be able to function in an adult world. Opportunities abound for little MMM to accompany you and interact with those of all ages each day. When in our lives, other than in public school, do we ever again spend 6 hours with people within 12 months of our own age?

    A few books that I read in my early days of homeschooling that might still be available in the public library system include:

    “The Teenaged Liberation Handbook” by Grace Llewellyn
    “Homeschooling for Excellence” by David and Micki Colfax (several kids went to Harvard)
    “Family Matters: Why Homeschooling Makes Sense” by David Gutterson (who also wrote the critically acclaimed novel, “Snow Falling on Cedars”)
    “Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling” by John Taylor Gatto
    “How Children Learn” John Holt (and anything else written by this unschooling pioneer)

    Another fantastic (and free!) resource is the following study put out by The Fraser Institute here in Canada:

    http://www.fraserinstitute.org/publicationdisplay.aspx?id=13089&terms=homeschooling

    It is a very personal decision to homeschool, however, it is also not a binding decision. As has been mentioned in the comments already, homeschooling can look different for each family. For some, it may mean a full year out of school to travel. For others, it could mean forming a co-op with other parents. Others, may enjoy a part time public school situation. Our tenth grader is currently attending a 3 hour school class on Mondays for Humanities (English and Social Studies) and loves it!

    As a former teacher, I actually had to relearn everything I had been taught about how children learn (and author John Holt confirmed this for me! LOL). It is so much fun for me to be a part of watching my children make discoveries, just as it was a joy to watch them learn to walk and talk. As for upper level courses (Sciences, Algebra, etc) there are plenty of well researched and prepared programs available for purchase. Many of these programs come with web based videos (similar to Khan Academy) to help parents teach, and help children learn. My children also have taken part in University programs geared for school aged children which have been just fantastic!

    Homeschooling isn’t for everyone, but it has been a wonderful road for us to travel down and we have no regrets! I would really recommend finding a nearby homeschooling support group so that you can sit in on some of their meetings, ask some questions, meet some homeschooled kids (who are remarkably normal and wonderful!) and get a feel for the homeschooling community to help you make your own decision for your family!

    Reply
  • Marc K. January 6, 2014, 6:22 pm

    Hi MMM! Thanks for this blog post. Am a few years away from having any kiddos myself, but am already thinking about these things with an eye toward perpetually working from home/achieving early financial independence. Have the same concerns about losing my free time/not enough structure for the kids/not enough making friends and learning requisite social skills. Agreed that the communal schooling sounds very badass, but difficult to engineer.

    Potential solutions: some kind of flipped classroom school system or a 3 day-school week alternating with 2 days of less structured home/self-education with some kind of accountability (like, you have to produce something or report on why what you did those 2 days is valuable for yourself or your community)? Interesting problem for sure, and great to have the freedom to be able to have this problem in the first place!

    Some resources I’ve been looking into/found helpful:

    1. What is School For? Stop Stealing Our Dreams – Seth Godin’s free manifesto (http://www.sethgodin.com/sg/docs/stopstealingdreamsscreen.pdf – He also has a less-comprehensive TEDx on the same subject)

    2. Unschoolery – a blog by Leo Babauta of Zen Habits (http://unschoolery.com/)

    Would love to read more of your thoughts as you work through this challenge.

    P.S. I don’t particularly mind a good typo, but the one in the first sentence of the paragraph starting with “Some of us just really enjoy our freedom…” gave me a few seconds of pause. Just in case other readers also stumble over that part! Cheers!

    Reply
  • Michael Crosby January 6, 2014, 6:41 pm

    Edith says in her comment: “I don’t have children, but what this program suggested is that kids are benefited from trying different “occupations” in the real world, as apprentices of anything they might be interested in.”

    Interesting concept. Most kids who go to school, get pigeon holed. Then when they finish high school and start college, they’re asked “what are they going to major in”.

    How about like Edith says, pursue what you’re interested in and try different subjects? I understand “specialization” but at the same time, I don’t think we should be made to fit in some nice definitive box.

    Reply
  • thumb on the scale January 6, 2014, 7:03 pm

    MMM you are a wealthy man!
    Become a philanthropist.
    Embrace your local school and make it better for all the kids in the community.
    Is the playground so kickass that all the kids go there on the weekends to play?
    Do cool children’s authors come to talk about their books?
    Do local scientists come to demonstrate experiments?
    I bet the principal has some ideas about how to make your kid’s school better.

    Reply
  • Christine January 6, 2014, 7:31 pm

    Such a wonderful post and discussion. We never had children, so my comments are only a reflection of my own education and wandering path through life. I went through what were considered very good public schools in the 60s/70s and despite AP classes, honor society, and extracurricular activities, I was largely uninspired, unchallenged, felt oddly outcast AND I was woefully ill-prepared for a university environment — tests had come so easily I had no idea how to apply myself and survive the university setting.

    The best inspiration I had –the stuff that stuck– came from my own explorations and interests, and my parent’s encouragement. My mother would occasionally check me out of school to go see a new museum exhibit or special event, and her volunteer jobs as a docent at various historic homes and museums made history more personal. My father encouraged art, science and a love of craftsmanship. Reading was huge throughout my childhood, and my mother was my best English teacher. Music also loomed large–we took in concerts of all kinds, from folk music to symphonies–although unfortunately I was never diligent enough to become a decent musician myself.

    The local library and, as we lived near DC, the many Smithsonian museums, were my internet for exploring ideas (I never saw a computer until grad school – and then I was working on a mainframe! Oh the joy of the internet!). We also had many foreign students stay with us when I was a kid, which, in a somewhat pre-global and very segregated world, was a wonderful cross-cultural experience.

    Ultimately, however, the interest that really drove me was getting out into nature — muddling around in the local creek and woodlots, family camping and hiking, my mother’s infectious love of birds, and eventually backpacking, caving and climbing trips with high school friends. That’s the passion I’ve pursued throughout my life and a career as a wildlife biologist.

    So if I have anything to add to this discussion, it’s to reiterate:
    • encourage lots of reading and exploring of ideas across disciplines;
    • spend lots of time exploring outside, naturalizing, and pursuing whatever natural athletics your boy enjoys;
    • find ways for your child to get to know people of all ages, cultures and backgrounds;
    • find learning opportunities through direct hands-on experience, no matter what the topic;
    • and yes, travel as much as you can as a family.

    I know you’ll figure out the right public school/homeschooling balance, and for what it’s worth, some of the most brilliant, emotionally intelligent and creative (although not necessarily monetarily advantaged) people I’ve known came out of home school or alternative schools, or found other creative pathways to pursue their passions.

    Reply
  • MoreKnown January 6, 2014, 7:39 pm

    Dead on. This part especially:

    “Some of us just really enjoy our freedom, and we use that freedom for constant learning of the things we really want to learn, and creating the things we really want to create.”

    I spent all day today learning how to use an animation program. It was creative passion at its finest and I’m looking forward to doing it again tomorrow. This is the kind of thing that makes financial independence so important.

    Reply
  • Todd January 6, 2014, 8:03 pm

    You cannot force kids to learn, which is what school is all about. You can’t fit learning into a exact blocks of time, which is what school does. All kids do not learn at the same pace, yet school assumes they do. The problems with school are systemic. It’s not natural to have 20-30 kids of the same age stuck in a room all day. The alternatives also have problems, homeschooling done well is an option but most homeschooling parents I’ve meet just replicate the failings of school in their home. Again, you can’t force kids to learn. Gather kids in one place under competent supervisor, supply them with tools, computers, supplies and turn them loose. Watch learning happen, teamwork evolve and interests being pursued. Math becomes fun when you are using it to build a catapult. Reading is great when you choose the subject. Play based self directed learning with other kids I think is the answer. But it depends on the kid too, some kids thrive in schools, some wither. Unschooling and/or a democratic schools are the best options I’ve found for my kids.

    Reply
  • Kevin January 6, 2014, 8:07 pm

    Normally, I am not too apt to comment but felt like I had to here. As your lifestyle is contrary to the majority in many regards, you may appreciate more what I relate (I will try not to make this too long):

    I was born in Canada to some Back-to-the-landers in the early eighties. For the first eight years of my life we (my mother, father, older brother, three dogs, three goats (milk only) and two draft horses) lived in a small squatter’s shack (12’x14′) on the Fraser River in Northern BC. We did not have neighbors to speak of… though several miles walk down a bush trail (no road access) would get you to a crazy old German who was waiting for the Nuclear Holocaust. Needless to say, my brother and I never went to school (which would have been a 45 minute walk and a one hour drive away). We spent our time playing with sticks, chasing bears, reading, and having an awesome time. In the evening, my father would tell us bedtime stories, though not the typical ones… He would tell us history stories (especially British, Roman and Greek) or anything else we would ask about. As living off the land began to wane on my parents we ended up moving more towards modern civilization… By the time I was ten we had acquired a school bus, converted it into a motor home and we travelled through Western North America (Mexico, US, and Canada predominately) with occasional sojourns further afield. My formal schooling began in grade 4 (of which I did four months). This was followed by about the same amount of time for grade 5, I skipped grade 6 and I did the entire school year of grade seven (as we were living in the same location for the whole time). That was the last of my primary education. I never went to high school. Not one day. I stayed with my parents until I was 15 and then, with their full support, I left home and went to work.
    I did some really neat jobs (mostly in Canada but also US and UK) including mining, breeding race horses, forest fire fighting, helicopter logging, building houses, working in an CNC factory, doing agricultural equipment design, teaching english, etc. By the time I was 19, I started a business (forestry in Canada) which I ran until I was 21. At this point I thought I should do something more interesting so I wrote some placement tests and got into college at the first year level (except for Math and Phys which I needed to upgrade from grade eleven level). I graduated with a BSc. second in my class, have been awarded some pretty prestigious research awards, and have added a couple more degrees in my spare time.

    So, what I was able to extract from all of this (and the key point I am trying to get at) is that while most people squandered (IMHO) 12 years of their lives being treated to the joys of the education system, I was able to wrest the same knowledge with a cumulative total of about 2 years (counting upgrades). I was not ever formally home schooled nor was my brother whose story is similar. But, I was always curious and read widely all of the time. I am also not a genius (though I am not a dummy either). What I gained from this is, in my view, immeasurable. By the time I was twenty I had travelled and lived on five continents, I had spent more time with my family than most people do in their lifetimes, and this was all done with very low incomes and intermittent work for my parents.

    In my view, you have a tremendous opportunity to do something even greater than that with your child as you have established a good economic situation for yourself and your family. In my view, the value of the formal education system is a great way to stifle interest and drive all joy out of learning and knowledge. I saw this in university where all (almost) of my “school system” classmates sought a “good” grade while not really taking in the information. What a waste of time and money!

    In my view you, the greatest thing that you can do for your kid is let him retire right now. Cheers,

    Kevin

    Reply
    • Jackie January 7, 2014, 5:15 am

      This is a great story! There have been a lot of good comments, but they all beg the question…What is education? It doesn’t surprise me the Mustache Family is pondering this question. You already live a life that runs counter-culture and puts much emphasis on living with purpose and optimizing all aspects of that life. Education to you might not look anything like the norm we have all experienced whether it be public, home or un schooling. I am very impressed you are stopping and considering the little guy’s opinions and ideas. Kudos to you for respecting his individuality! All the best to you in your decision-making.

      Reply
  • JayP January 6, 2014, 8:12 pm

    We all went to school. There are a lot of social aspects that can only be learned by interacting with a diverse group of people. I think sometimes people overthink it. There are many, many years ahead for all the other stuff. No need to reinvent the wheel on this one.

    Reply
  • Neil January 6, 2014, 8:15 pm

    Good to hear that NZ is still on your radar Mr MMM!
    Looking forward to meeting/ hosting you and the family…….2014? 2015?

    Reply
  • Meghan January 6, 2014, 8:46 pm

    Great post MMM!

    My husband and I really enjoy reading your blog.

    Should you decide to venture over to New Zealand, we’d really love to meet you in person. We’re in Auckland.

    You’re an inspiration. Keep up the good work!

    Reply
  • Janette January 6, 2014, 8:48 pm

    Here are the main questions for second through fourth grades:
    Can he read? Is he able to grasp mathematical concepts (addition/ subtraction/ multiplication/division/basic geometry and fractions)? Are you able to enroll him in any non academic things which involve his friends? Are you willing to put in the time?(Probably the most important question)

    If you can answer “yes” to these questions, I highly recommend that you remove him from school and begin homeschooling. After first grade the teacher is supervising the additional reading, writing and basic math skills. Fifth grade, often not always, begins science and social studies with actual concepts. That is where “team”(cough) is learned for projects.
    The amount of time waste in school today attempting to teach to the middle and test everyone, is amazing. I would say that an average day a student has about 15 minutes five to one with a teacher and four hours with a class learning anything from Art to Math.
    The amazing thing to me is the addition of the computer to the classroom. This provides wonderful individualization, but the student receives even less teacher instruction because s/he is monitoring computers. Can’t you do that at home?

    My background? Twenty five years of K-8 (Public, Private, Catholic and International school) classroom experience brings me here. I now substitute teach K-6. I was one of those seventy hour a week, individual lesson plans, teachers.

    I do not, in any way, recommend “virtual schools”. Parents who get these programs are not homeschooling, they are simply letting a machine do the educating. Many studies show this does not work without significant parental interaction.

    I know a family of nine who sent the first five off to their careers after attending various forms of advanced education: lawyer, auto mechanic, nurse, art teacher, theologian. Mom”s background consisted of two years at University studying French. Dad is a chemist. They followed curriculum for Math and made the rest fit what they wanted to read. It was a full time job. They homeschooled all through elementary and sent most to an academic private high school.

    Which great man can you name who went through and made great strides while attending our elementary system? Think about it. (Men specifically. Women tend to flourish in school.)

    Take two years out with your son. I do not think you would regret it. Put him back in if it doesn’t work out. No one will even look twice at his absence (sadly enough).

    Reply
  • Chris January 6, 2014, 9:00 pm

    We had a good experience homeschooling four kids through most of elementary school. There are many resources available now that make it easy and very time efficient plus allow for each child to emphasize the pursuits that most interest them. I believe in Washington, public schools get state funding for homeschoolers by being allowed to include them in their student headcount – I think that arrangement was helpful in breaking down initial public school system resistance to home-schoolers. We also used the YMCA home-schooling program one afternoon a week where the kids swam, did crafts, and had gym class over a 3 hour block. One homeschool co-op organized a variety of field trips roughly once a month. Later, the kids enrolled in public school and I think the structure was helpful since it was more than they received at home, especially for subjects like math and foreign language. It seems that there are likely many paths to getting a quality education but I would really advocate for the MMM family to try homeschooling at least once (maybe even just a semester at first) while little MMM is in grade school – with neither parent tied down by a job you could really take advantage of the flexibility available to take the classroom on the road and flex the schedule and assignments to match your interests. Additionally, Malcolm Gladwell recently made a comment while on book tour, saying essentially that public classroom design is most relevant to kids performing in the lower end; kids in the upper quartile are going to do well in just about any environment.

    Reply
  • B Presleigh January 6, 2014, 9:09 pm

    This is a super timely blog post for us. I’m in the process of enrolling our 5 year old for kindergarten next year. Because of our families’ mustachian ways, I’ve had the privilege of quitting my corporate engineering job and staying home with the kiddos. Like the MMM family, we focus on reading, exploring and being outside. However, I have managed to produce a kid who can already read and write before school has even started. In our rural area, kindergarten readiness is poor and I’m already being told she’ll be placed in groups so her classmates can learn what she already knows. Boredom can’t be far behind.
    At this point I’m considering a public Montessori charter school or blended homeschool (part-time homeschool). Never thought I’d homeschool, but with the inefficiencies of public school and the capabilities of technology, it really is a game changer.

    Reply
  • pachipres January 6, 2014, 9:23 pm

    I have unschooled my children for nineteen years now and it has truly worked for us. My 19 year old has thanked me for allowing him to have so much freedom. He finally at 17 did attend high school and felt he caught up to his peers who had been in school for 11 years. I did a lot of reading on unschooling like John Holt, Raymond Moore, and am sold on the idea. I have seen it work. My older two daughters have never been to high school and they will both graduate with their university degrees this spring. I must admit I now do a little bit of “book” work with my 13 year old but it is very minimal. If you could travel to New Zealand, even if it were for one year out of your child’s life, I do not think you would ever regret pulling him out for that one year. Just my two cents here.

    Reply
  • Bonnie January 6, 2014, 9:43 pm

    You may want to think about how your son will learn to tolerate those dull, average, not so gifted people that will always be a part of his life. Public school also teaches how to get along in environments you don’t control.

    Reply
  • Scott January 6, 2014, 9:48 pm

    Love the blog. I’m down the street from you in broomsticks (not the McMansion section), my son goes to a well known charter school in Lafeyette. We’ve had a great experience with the school. There’s a ton of parent volunteer interaction at the school, I’d venture to say that the majority of parents have at least a bachelors degree so the students tend to catch on quickly. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of studying for the test and the middle of the classroom is fairly advanced.

    That was a real concern for me. I moved from a poorly funded school district in Dallas to a well funded one in Cleveland when I was 12. I basically lost a grade level in the process, going from an A student to a C student. In my experience, most schools teach to the middle of the class. When the class is populated by students that don’t have a good home life or educated parents there’s unfortunately a drop in the quality of education for students that come from a family that is well educated and doesn’t need to spend inordinate amounts of time studying simple standardized test problems.

    I have a hard time with this concept as I know the only way to improve education in low performing schools is to send students of all levels to all schools, but I also don’t want to make my kids guinea pigs. I really don’t know what the answer is and I’ll admit that I checked my liberal card at the door when it came to our children’s education.

    Question for everyone. In my experience, I’ve noticed that most homeschoolers I’ve met are of the conservative christian variety. I just don’t think a raging agnostic like me would fit into that group. Are there any secular home schooler groups that yap about gay marriage and condoms?

    Reply
  • Lori January 6, 2014, 9:52 pm

    I am a homeschooling mom of soon-to-be 8; the oldest is 15. I have found homeschooling is about far more than education — it is a family lifestyle of learning, no matter what style homeschooling you do. Sharing the joys of academic firsts rank right up there with the other firsts (walking, etc.), and I find it a continual challenge to me as they grow, ask excellent questions, wrestle with topics, and I have to examine what I fundamentally believe a real education is (not the same as popularly defined). As you educate yourself on this topic, may I suggest checking into the grandfather of home education in this country, Raymond Moore? The library probably has several of his books; aside from the Mormon slant, I believe he would be an inspiring read. He is a big believer in hands-on learning and early entrepenuership, and living a very rich, fulfilling family life. I also managed to get his curriculum handbooks (which lay out the specifics) through interlibrary loan. His “Successful Homeschool Family Handbook” is probably the place to start.
    As an aside, I find socialization is a non-issue, at least in our area (with tons of homeschoolers). What I find is that homeschoolers socialize far more broadly than public schoolers, and are far more adept socially because they are not constantly confined to only socializing with their exact age-mates. Instead, they socialize by interest. Also, when homeschoolers socialize, it is generally for the purpose of socializing, instead of trying to sneak in a quick conversation in the hallway or while the teacher’s back is turned. Which also leads to greater and deeper social skills.
    Although homeschooling can be an overwhelming challenge at times (at least, it can feel that way to the parent contemplating taking over your child’s complete education), remember that you can always take it year by year, and decide based on what’s going on (all factors).
    I will tell you that, after all this time homeschooling, I wouldn’t trade it for anything, nor would my kids. It’s the best thing I’ve ever done for them — or really, with them. (Not saying it’s for everyone, just our experience.)

    Reply
  • Jane Ellens January 6, 2014, 10:12 pm

    My son is now thirty, when he was in the fifth grade a group of parents whose children were as restless as he was, asked if I would home school the group. That first year I had 4 students, the following year there were 7 and the third and final year before they went off to high school there were 9. It was an amazing experience for all of us and a good solution to concerns about social isolation.

    I learned to trust them to take control of their own learning. They learned to survive in the wilderness and conduct swift water rescue by pooling knowledge and creating pulleys (not just on paper but literally over rapids).They became tour guides for one another after researching their community at the city archives. When one child expressed curiousity about the mechanics of the human heart he took us all on a mission of discovery that had the family dog salivating over the beef hearts that were first learning tools and eventually his dinner. They testified at hearings into violence on television just because they were the only kids who showed up.That experience taught them that showing up and participating in the conversation can make a difference in your world.
    I learned that teaching was more about asking questions than answering them. I asked what their dreams were for the future and then we went to explore the realities of those dreams. We spent a day peering over the shoulders of assembly line workers at an auto plant ( that dream died that day!). We went behind the scenes at the Toronto Zoo to see how they designed enclosures (that boy now has decided that enclosing animals is not ideal and so works to conserve habitat for woodland caribou) . We mucked out stalls and groomed horses on a horse farm and we spent a day at an animation studio (that boys dream is now his reality at Nelvana).

    What we all learned was that expectations of rigour were far more palatable when the content of that learning was in the hands of the learner. I would encourage any group of parents who want to break out of the existing orthodoxy to just do it.

    Reply
  • Lauren January 6, 2014, 10:14 pm

    I’m a teacher and I’ve been thinking about starting an after school program for kids where they can come and decide on a project to do based on what they are interested in. e.g. designing a playground/cubbyhouse, planning and implementing a fundraiser for a cause… the ideas are limitless….
    I think that is a good way to supplement schooling with time for children to learn to be learners.

    Reply
  • Zathras January 6, 2014, 10:20 pm

    Two thoughts from my own school experience (I’m now in my late 20s):

    1) It’s fantastic how much you both openly show respect for your son’s time. My childhood experience was a whirlwind of activities chosen and scheduled by other people – soccer practice, Girl Scouts, music lessons, basketball practice, skating lessons, not to mention a full load of schoolwork since I was an A student. I never felt like I had the time to recharge (and as an introvert, that’s important). To this day I have a lot of trouble motivating myself to do things, because I never learned to ask myself what *I* wanted to accomplish.

    2) If you decide to keep your son in public school, make sure the school is up to the task of educating him to the level he should be at, especially since he sounds pretty bright and motivated. I was that kid who was bored to death for years in school, only to discover in my senior year of HS and first year of college that even though I’d taken the most advanced courses in my high school, I was miles behind other kids my age because the pace of math and science instruction in my town was just too slow.

    Anyway, you seem to be approaching the question in the right frame of mind, but I thought I’d share in case it helps you or your readers zero in on what their goal is when choosing how to educate their kids!

    Thanks for the blog, I’m a relatively new reader but you’ve inspired me to try commuting to campus by bike at least a few times per week (I’m in my second round of school, getting the technical degree I didn’t know enough to know I wanted the first time around!)

    Reply
  • Adam January 6, 2014, 10:37 pm

    I am convinced that unschooling is the path I want to take with my children’s education. I have never been more sure of anything in my life. I would encourage you to check out a couple books on Amazon on the subject written by people who have actually done it. It is a great way to put your mind at ease about pulling your kid out of school.

    Children can learn to read and do math without school, the same way they learned to walk and talk on their own. I’d they want to play sports, there are many local clubs they could join. Some high schools even let homeschoolers play on their teams. There is plenty of knowledge to be had in the library and on the Internet. There are plenty of opportunities for social interaction outside of school as well.

    If you want to make a bit of a compromise, you could see if there are any Sudbury style schools in your area. It’s a completely self-directed learning environment, the adults there just help facilitate any learning the children want to do.

    Reply
  • Linda January 6, 2014, 11:58 pm

    Hi MMM,
    Another New Zealand fan here! We think it’s pretty awesome – moved here 2 years ago for the better lifestyle and paycheck!

    Keep in mind that international students pay a heck of a lot more for schooling, but for non-university schooling it shouldn’t be too bad.

    Auckland is a great city with good weather (Wellington is known for being *very windy*), but highly populated, and very spread out. Many parks, protected ranges, islands and other free activities makes it a pleasure for outdoorsy people. Also has an *extensive* library collection and the ability to request any book in the Auckland region for free delivery to your closest library (Love it!). Auckland tends to be more expensive compared to other regions, rent is very expensive, though I’m sure you’ll come up with some suitable solution to that :D

    With your experience and having an occupation on the skills shortage list, you should be able to apply for permanent residency, even if you only stay for a year. And the government does not care if you actually get a job afterwards or not (On the skilled visa pathway at least). Stay for at least 2 years, and you can get no travel restrictions on your visa (Free to come and go from New Zealand for life!).

    Perm residency will give you cheaper schooling (“Free” except for a “donation”), and cheap public health. Without govt subsidizing, doctor visits can cost $50-$100 depending on area and specialists would be very pricey. I guess travel insurance can come some way to negating those potential expensive fees.

    Will be very interesting to hear about your plans and travel in New Zealand if you decide to go ahead with this.

    Reply
  • SanJoseMom January 7, 2014, 1:25 am

    Ha, my nine year old has been talking about retirement lately. His goal is to become a pro golf player and make tons of money to retire early :)
    My son attends an alternative public school which emphasis social, emotional and physical development, lots of hands-on, field trips, project based learning with strong parent participation. So the kids are learning not only from the teacher but also from parents that have very diverse background and experience in Silicon Valley. I love teaching volleyball and comic as electives. Vast majority of kids enjoy going to school, but my son was not excited after two weeks of fun holiday break.
    Having follow education policy around the world, Sir Ken Robinson is hitting the nail on the head that schools are killing creativity with all that homework, exams and rote memorization. I think that more countries should follow Finland model where schools begin at age seven, they assign less homework and more engage in play, but still rank top at international assessment such as PISA, given the fact that they hardly test the students.
    Since MMM has a great lifestyle, I would suggest to take your son out of school more often to travel around the world and expose him to interesting projects and organizations.

    Reply
  • CTY January 7, 2014, 2:00 am

    I have added a few comments about what we did with our boys. And have a few more thoughts to share. I speak from three perspectives: parent of enrolled kids, a homeschooling parent and; public school teacher (11 yrs, social studies).
    First about the boredom issue–some things are boring. I told my boys this and; I would tell my students this. I would also tell them (all) that I hoped they could find something interesting. But if boredom set in, and, their work was done they had options: 1. read a book, 2. write something 3. draw 4. day dream 5. work on another assignment.
    As for homework–I am against it. I told them (all) this. In my classroom I designed a homework option: do an homework assignment the night before with any resources out there or take a quiz the next day with only a pencil. My boys had the choice to do homework or not. They had to weigh the consequences themselves.
    As for homeschooling. They went to public school and were home schooled too. Most of the home schooling was their current interests, family trips/vacations with cool things to do and community events like cultural arts and reenactments etc. Even with following their interests there were still boring things, Ask either of them about the Coast Guard Museum in Delaware–they still groan. Or the Currier and Ives Exhibit in Amherst, NY. Or learning the vocabulary for a military flight simulator.
    I guess what I am trying to say is that Boredom Happens. Let your son know this and let him know too that an education is the key to either having a mad-crazy boring job to support himself or doing what he loves. You gotta put in time–no way around it.

    Reply
  • Colleen January 7, 2014, 5:00 am

    Really appreciating these comments as we have just made the big decision to pull our daughter (age 5) out of an alternative ‘unschooling’ school and put her in the local public school. As much as we loved the school and so did she, none of us liked the commute across the other side of town. I think with these decisions you have to consider how it will affect your life and your child’s life as a whole. My daughter would complain about the long car trip. We figured she might benefit from the alternative school but overall how much time does that then take away from her spending time outside or getting to know the local kids? How much energy was I expending on that commute that I could have been focusing on my kids. I personally went to many schools growing up from home school to alternative to strict private to public. The thing that mattered most to my happiness at school were my friends. I send myself crazy sometimes trying to decide the perfect place for my kids to gain an education but in the end home life is the most important thing. Weighing everything up as a whole is important also rather than compartmentalising the decision.

    Reply
  • Julius January 7, 2014, 5:52 am

    While a Waldorf school is in clear violation of this blogs fragility message,
    and especially
    http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/12/avoiding-ivy-league-preschool-syndrome/
    it’s at the top of the list for a badass childhood.
    Creativity and self reliance are the basic tenets of that education.
    I come from a poor family, but instead of buying useless shit or wasteful vacations in the south, they sent me to Waldorf.
    You only get one shot at having an incredible school experience.
    So, on my extreme frugality path, I will make one exception for my child.

    Reply
    • Mrs. Money Mustache January 7, 2014, 10:40 am

      I just found a Waldorf school in our area. I’ve heard of this type of school but had never really looked into it.

      The tuition is $13,650 per year – wow!

      Okay, maybe that’s pretty common for private schools. But, what I found more interesting was their religious slant in the 3rd grade curriculum. Is this common for Waldorf?

      Here is a quote from their web site:

      “As the children begin the Third Grade they are looking at the world with new eyes. No longer are simple explanations adequate. What once passed by unnoticed, now begins to be questioned. No longer are they content to be part of life without doubts and questions. They begin to perceive the world around them from an expanding perspective.

      To meet this change in the children, the curriculum includes a story of how the world was created, according to the Old Testament. The study of humanity continues through the Fall out of Paradise into the archetypal struggles for existence as found in the Old Testament stories. History study emerges this year through the Old Testament stories. Weaving into the struggles told through the Old Testament are the practical lessons of shelter, clothing and farming. Through this study, individual skills are discovered to meet the conditions found here on earth.”

      Reply
      • Julius January 7, 2014, 11:10 am

        Yeh, that sounds a bit intense.
        The school I attended had no religious slant.
        We did learn about all the major religions though.
        We also met a real Native American who showed us some of there traditions in that bloc.
        I think any good alternative education will teach the child respect for the earth and other cultures.
        13k is a lot. With the parents junior has, he’ll be fine…

        Reply
      • Nina January 9, 2014, 3:38 pm

        One of my children had her (Suzuki method) music lesson at a Waldorf school. Her music teacher had a barter agreement with the school to share the studio space in exchange for some type of musical teaching. My daughter was 4 years old at the time and happily playing the Suzuki repertoire (Bach, Mozart, Telemann, various folk songs, etc.) and her teacher WAS NOT PERMITTED to teach Mozart and several other beloved composers to the grade school students because the Waldorf philosophy insisted they started their music education with chants or some weird thing. Somehow modern composers were going to corrupt the youngling’s brains. I think the problem with most schools and most educational systems is their dependence on rules, which are based on theories, that perhaps have no basis in any human reality. But anyhow, because of that experience, I would NEVER send my kids to Waldorf (though I did send them both to Montessori private school and public school, both with their limitations though I’m more forgiving of public schools because at least they don’t come with a $15K/year price). I admire the home schoolers and unschoolers. Right now, I’m just a relaxed schooler and let my kids take breaks from school when they need them.

        Reply
  • Nigel Tidy January 7, 2014, 6:19 am

    Here in the UK, Jamie Oliver, the celebrity chef, has very recently cast doubt on the relevance of intense academic study. He has four children aged 11 to 3 years old. Jamie has suggested to his daughter that she should cut down on her homework. He believes in a holistic view of education. Whilst living in Los Angeles, he sent his children to what is claimed to be a ‘hippy’ school. They asked his daughter what she enjoyed the most. When she expressed a keen interest in song writing, they used it as a medium for teaching her.

    Personally, I like the message delivered by Ken Robinson, which is an important one, conveyed with a good dry wit. I believe that children need to learn good social skills, basic discipline, good manners (including listening skills) and learning strategies. At the same time they need to learn how to express themselves, work in teams, lead, explore, challenge their fears, laugh and be creative. Unfortunately, schooling systems and opinions seem to swing one way or the other, when children actually need an all round balance. perhaps that is where the combined variety of experiences from school and home life can provide some balance.

    We should remember that children have different learning styles, from visual, auditory and kinaesthetic (hands-on) approaches and it is not easy for teachers to embrace all learning styles as children get older.

    Our own four children are all very different in their views, interests and abilities at school. One of our children has a similar view of school to your child. Also, he has been able to argue his point of view very well from the age of 6 years and upwards. I somehow imagine that he would do well as an entrepreneur, where he can make his own rules.

    Reply
    • phred January 7, 2014, 2:28 pm

      Jamie’s teachers thought he would never amount to much because he is dyslexic

      Reply
  • Kate in NY January 7, 2014, 6:28 am

    We have done public school and homeschooling with our 4 kids – there are advantages and disadvantages to both (I do particularly recommend it for Middle School, however). I will say that we were always pretty lenient with our kids when it came to homework in elementary school. After spending 6 hours a day at school, they deserved free time to pursue their own interests – and the idea of them then working on pointless, mind-numbing worksheets seemed cruel. I’m sure it pissed off their teachers, but after 30 minutes we’d just tell them to stop. Sometimes we’d just forget about the homework all together. The educator Alfie Kohn has a great book about just how meaningless homework is – it’s called “The Homework Myth.” Highly recommend it.

    Reply
    • Frugal in DC January 7, 2014, 8:18 am

      I agree 100% about homework. We’ve had had to remind teachers and administrators about our school district’s limits on homework every school year (it goes up slightly as the student goes through school). A couple of pediatricians told me that if it were up to them, school homework would be banned completely.

      Reply
  • catherine January 7, 2014, 6:37 am

    My son struggled through school for years. It is true that school serves the masses but those that find it difficult to conform to traditional schooling fall through the cracks–and fall hard.

    When he turned 16 we were happy to allow him to drop out of school because school did not serve him well. We were afraid that his feelings of failure there would doom him to a horrible life.

    So he dropped out, got a full time job at SkiBarn, which he loved, and went out in the world to become a ski bum at 18, a professional golfer at 19, and teaching golf pro at 20.

    A few years later he changed course, got his GED, then a two-year degree at community college, and then became the valedictorian at his university at age 30.

    He got a job he loved, and simultaneously went to law school, and he just passed the bar a few months ago.

    He’s a writer, a poet, a singer, a golfer, a snowboarder, a community organizer, a public affairs professional, a guitar player, a photographer, a loyal friend and he makes everybody laugh.

    I often wonder what would have happened if we had been intent on squeezing him into the pigeonhole of “student.” How much of those other wonderful possibilities would we have crushed out of him in the meantime?

    Reply
    • SanJoseMom January 7, 2014, 9:00 pm

      You did the right thing by allowing your son figured out his own path. I know many smart kids who do not fit with traditional schools and they are being labelled as “at risk” or “failure.” These kids could do as well as your son if they have the right support at home.The bottom line is that everyone needs to have marketable skills to make a living in order to support what they enjoy. Being great at academic do not necessary translate to having marketable skills or important skills such as critical thinking and creativity.

      Reply
  • Brian F. January 7, 2014, 6:37 am

    Our kids have not displayed any dislike of school signs. In fact, after about three days of being home on Christmas break they are pretty bored and ready to go back. Our oldest has however expressed an interest in doing on-line classes once she gets into high school. I’m all for looking for alternative ways to spark a child’s interest in learning, including spending time learning in other environments/cultures.

    Reply
  • Noodle January 7, 2014, 6:58 am

    After watching a LOT of families educate their kids, i have come to the conclusion that a relatively small percentage can only function in the home school or traditional school setting (and those are pretty obvious)–the rest will be happy, healthy, and successful as adults either way even if they have good and bad days and years along the way. That said, I do think there are valuable aspects to public school that homeschooling can’t match-the opportunity to see how you do (and develop strategies for coping) in a system where someone else sets the rules and you are not the center [trust me, your potential colleagues, bosses and HR dept at Big Corporation would like you to know this about yourself before you start the job search]; the opportunity to experience the full range of humanity in the community where someday you will be a citizen and voter making decisions that affect everybody; the opportunity to have an experience in common with future neighbors, co-workers etc, and if you will pardon the comment, the opportunity to have your own parents’ and families shortcomings balanced out by teachers and community members–the social awkwardness mentioned by above poster is a great example. [Some of the saddest HS situations I see are ones where there is some obvious issue that the parents just cannot or will not see–I think being clear-eyed about yourself and child is one of the biggest assets to homeschooling]. But I don’t think it takes 12 years to experience all this if child is not a great match for school…so maybe alternating years in and out? Or fall and spring? Participating in some of the part-time options mentioned by previous posters?

    Anyway, I look forward to hearing more of the thought process…

    Reply
  • Brila January 7, 2014, 7:12 am

    We had a similar issue with our son – very bright, miserable at school. We are in the UK and had been living in the very-expensive south-east. Once we achieved a degree of FI, we moved to a nicer, less crammed area and looked around at the local schools. Son (and daughter now) are both at a much smaller school, which makes individual attention much easier. Mixed age-group classes mean than work is differentiated by ability rather than age. Smaller staff roll, means they get a specialist art teacher one afternoon a week and other people in on an ad hoc basis. They have two afternoons of Forest School a week. My children flexi-school, so they have one day off a week (we stagger the days, so they are not off together). On their home day we flop about the house doing our own projects, or go off and visit places. Son is currently helping out a team excavating and preserving a roman mosaic on his day off – meaningful work among interesting adults. School has a no-homework policy, so the children have more time to read a lot. Home ed has many benefits, but I think the best situation for us is part-time-ish school at the right school.

    If mini-moustache likes maths/engineering, how about raspberry pi or Lego mindstorms? We picked up an early mindstorms unit secondhand and have all had a lot of fun with it. Go part time, then you have much more time and space to spend doing interesting things with interesting people. Also, could he start his own mini-enterprise? Our children dabbled in salad farming in buckets last year and sold some to a local pub.

    Reply
  • Don Bronkema January 7, 2014, 7:32 am

    Eight decades of bitter struggle have persuaded respondent [oft expelled from school] that your kind of environs–exemplifying the best of liberal, conservative & libertarian pedagogy–can never be replicated en masse in a democratic society–at least one that despises creativity & intellect…the outcome is hideous inegality, waste & threats of extinction to H. semper unsapiens…deliverance via Delphi-projected Transhumanism [2085 – 2120] is problematical…your dispositive solution will be appreciated!

    Reply
  • Frugal in DC January 7, 2014, 8:06 am

    Great post and comments. I think every kid hates going to school from time to time. I sure did when I was your son’s age, and remember my father dragging me to school in tears a few times. My son is in college and my daughter enjoys high school (actually looked forward to going back after winter break). When my son was in high school he begged me to homeschool him a couple of times. I didn’t see it as a viable option mainly due to our very different temperaments and my own fear that I wouldn’t be able to adequately cover the material in some of his more challenging AP/IB courses. In any event, all is well now and he is truly enjoying college.

    I would start by asking your son “why” until you get to the core of the issue. There are so many options nowadays, many of which are mentioned in your post and comments. He seems to be at the age where kids are tested for gifted/talented programs in my school district. Perhaps there are even more intense (in a good way) GT programs available. This is a spendy option, but an educational consultant could offer some insights and ideas. Some consultants have free initial consultations. You could always try homeschooling/unschooling for a year, and if things don’t work out your son could go back to school. Sounds like there are some neat options like co-ops, part-time school enrollment, and online educational support for homeschooling parents. Parenting is not for wimps, that is for sure!

    Reply
  • Sara January 7, 2014, 8:25 am

    This was a great read. For some reason it made me wish I spent Christmas vacation with the MMM family. I truly understand how your kid must be feeling because I feel that way each time I have to get up to go to work. Then I remind myself I’m going to work now so I can NOT work in ten years. A long way to go but still… there’s hope.

    Reply
  • April January 7, 2014, 8:43 am

    I was an A student that was pulled for gifted classes, etc. I was bored, but I was very accommodating and public school worked for me on paper. In real life, though, I think I could have learned a lot more and a lot better about “stuff” and about myself. Regardless, if my son were like me, he would probably be in public school. However, he is not. He is not accommodating at all and has a lot of trouble understanding social cues (like other people in our family, by the way). I feel like his personality will make it hard for him in a classroom where he is expected to follow the herd, but that as an adult it will be a nonissue.
    He is in his fourth year at a Montessori school, the equivalent of first grade. There is horrible Montessori and great Montessori, the teachers are extremely important. I love the teachers in this school. Because of his lagging social skills, their focus on peaceful interaction, team projects, presenting positive role models (MLK, Jr, Ghandi, etc.) is exactly what he needs. The school also focuses on community involvement and neighborliness. The particular topics that he studies are student-selected, and things like reading and math are presented as tools to achieve his goals rather than ends in themselves. He is very mechanical, so spends time designing vehicles, etc. His classmates focus on things like filmmaking, plays, poetry, and nature. They have a Lego club, club to raise money for polar bears, they take turns preparing community meals for each other, etc. They usually do some kind of field trip at least every other week and often have guest speakers/presenters.
    We live in Kentucky. Our public schools don’t come close to that. I admit that I am living vicariously through him. I would have loved to go to school there. At the same time, I wish all children could be allowed to pursue their interests and that tools for positive interaction were part of school for everyone. (That “get tough and punch the bully” stuff comes to everyone, eventually, but wouldn’t it be nice if we could create a world where everyone knows how crappy it is instead of accepting it?)
    To sum up, it depends on your kid. Pick the right tool for the job, just as you would for any challenge.

    Reply
    • Melissa April 15, 2014, 6:10 pm

      April, if you see this, would you comment on where you are in KY and/or which Montessori school? I have an almost 3 yo and an infant and am struggling to decide what paths we will ultimately take to educate.
      Thanks in advance!

      Reply
  • Mike Schultz January 7, 2014, 9:31 am

    To the MMM family,

    I get what you are saying and I couldn’t agree more. My wife and I have home-schooled (unschool) our four kids for the past five years 5th grade, 3rd grade, 1st grade and preschool. I know all the traditional schooled parents always point to the socializing issue and it is quite hilarious. It is if they think our kid are locked in the house all day. Man, they are involved in an unschool/ home-school co-op, church activities, tai kwon do, YMCA functions and a bunch of other stuff. We sometimes think they get too much outside socialization sometimes. My wife and I are both at home and we spend a lot of time in Northern Michigan and do some awesome things. Actually, after reading many of your articles about you and your wife I was surprised you didn’t homeschool after getting to know you. You are all about freedom and efficiency and you send your kid to a inefficient boring old education model. You can get all your requirements done in 1-2 hours per day and set your own schedule. Remember all the bull crap wasted time in school? You only were learning for about an hour per day. All I have to say MMM family, get out of the box and consider getting your son out of that boring stifling death trap. It is all about freedom and you and Mrs. MMM are more than capable of being excellent at homeschooling. peace out!

    Reply
  • Peter January 7, 2014, 9:36 am

    I’m coming straight out of an high school education that was entirely home schooled. I’ve learnt a few things in the process. First, your child may not be like you. It’s important that you find out who your child is. My father tried to teach me an approach to school that worked for him, but failed miserably for me. My last couple of years of high school were almost entirely self directed, and I learned more during those years than during any others. Mastery of reading, writing, and math, if at all possible, are essential in today’s world. Lacking a fundamental understanding of history, government, the sciences, other cultures, and sport is crippling. That’s why they’re considered elementary. I, unlike the present school system think it’s ok if not everyone gets a job as a genius making revolutionary discoveries, and there are many jobs that don’t require anything beyond the aforementioned literacy.

    They say that the best managers go unnoticed. There are things that are really hard for the child to anticipate needing to know, e. g. what to do to prepare for college.

    What I think would have worked best for me would have been directed self-education, but I think that the best thing for your child depends on your child. I like the mbti system for personalities when you start from temperaments. At 8 years old, it should be great for giving you some ideas on what might work. What’s clear, however, is that something needs to change.

    Reply
  • Susan January 7, 2014, 9:44 am

    Montessori? I don’t know if there are any for kids older than PreK/Kindergarten in your neighborhood, but they have a good reputation for self-directed learning. Also, you might like Teacher Tom’s blog —
    http://teachertomsblog.blogspot.com/

    Reply
  • Amy January 7, 2014, 9:53 am

    I haven’t read any of the comments yet, so forgive me if I am repeating what has already been said.

    I believe the last two paragraphs of your post are your answer. You have gone off the board in so many other ways and found it to greatly benefit your family, so why wouldn’t this work as well?

    By the end of the week, through this blog you probably will have found your 5-6 other cool kids – and parents – to round out your home school co-op. (I would suggest 12-15.) You don’t need to wait till third grade. These things can be organized in two weeks, if all the parents are cool, flexible thinkers (Mustachians!) It can change and grow over time, but the first “Unit” could be construction, or whatever other subject one of the parents is ready to teach.

    You will figure out how to incorporate math and all the required subjects as you go. You will also re-evaluate your child’s needs each year. Maybe he will beg to go back to school for high school. (My kids went back to school for high school, and they thrived there, and the first two have each earned full academic/athletic scholarships to college.)

    The turning point for my being willing to take my first child out of the local school was when my husband and I, on separate days, sat through an entire school day, making notes of when the students were actually academically engaged and on task. It totaled 38 minutes, if I recall, and 8 of those was PE. (It was soccer and only 1/4 of the class was allowed on the gym floor at a time.) The math lesson, while well-taught, was simple enough for my child to grasp within the first couple of minutes. The rest of the 40 minutes was spent waiting for the rest of the class to catch on.

    The rest of the non-academically-engaged hours are also very important, but you can replace that with the cooperative aspect of what you are envisioning, and with the added time your son will have to hang with other kids and adults since he won’t be in school all day. He may not learn as well to be “cool” with his peers (this is a stereotype of home schoolers that is largely true), but he was going to be a little counter-culture anyway, based on who his parents are. And his parents are “cool” in the personality sense, so home school will not hurt him socially in the long run. He was already going to be that kid who doesn’t watch TV. : )

    Your child will thrive no matter what you decide, but he might very well be happier if he doesn’t have to be bored half the day.

    Reply
  • FloridaStache January 7, 2014, 10:27 am

    MMM- my daughter is the same age as your son, and we go through the exact same thing- she never wants to go to school. She is also in a program like the one your son is where one day a week she gets to do alternative activities- and it is the highlight.

    However, when she spends too much time hanging out at home, boredom also quickly sets in, and the school routine provides some much-needed structure. While I agree with you that traditional school, and the “rules” that come with it, provide a similar sort of minimum-security prison environment as an office job, I also think it’s important that kids learn how to navigate and even thrive in that environment.

    We hope they will share our values, achieve financial independence, lead a self-actualized, self-directed lifestyle- but in the event that they don’t/can’t, it’s important that they learn to deal with (and master) the social structure, the rules, the bullshit that comes with participating in any societal institution.

    I see attending the public schools as the social equivalent of not “over-cleaning” per your previous post- if kids aren’t exposed to that kind of environment, which is largely reflective of the community and society as a whole, then they may struggle in adulthood when confronted with “the system.” I’m not trying to launch a salvo in the homeschool wars- everyone should do what they feel is right for their kid- but I see too much “alternative” upbringing/schooling as sort of the equivalent of too much antibiotic/cleaning products. Sooner than later, the kids will have to navigate the world as it is, not as we wish it were- and we best prepare them- especially since we will not always be there to guide them.

    Reply
  • James January 7, 2014, 10:51 am

    I was like your son throughout school- I learned the most outside of class and found the academic parts tedious and repetitive. One of the best decisions I made was to dual enroll at a local community college. My high school paid for my classes (definitely a Mustache-approved option) and I was able to rack up a bunch of college credits before I even started college full-time. I was able to graduate a year early and saved even more money as a result. Another option, that I wish we had looked into, was simply becoming a “home-schooled” student at 16 and attending the community college full time. If I had done that, I would have been able to graduate even sooner and would have saved even more money. Also, taking college classes at that age kept me interested in learning. I know this is a ways off for your son, but these are some good options to keep in mind for later on.

    Reply
  • Acroy January 7, 2014, 10:56 am

    Glad to hear you are having these thoughts MMM!

    Homeschool. That is all.

    I am 36 yr old SWAMI with a stay-at-home homemaker & fitness instructor wife

    Oldest child is 7 (almost 8) yr old boy

    Choose your curriculum, decide what to call it (unschool or whatever) but decide what he needs to learn, and then do it. You and Mrs MMM are blessed with the resource (time!) to do it. Jr MMM will friggin blossom.

    We stick to Readin’, Writin’, ‘Rithmetic, and in our case Religion. Add in a class or 2 on history, science, language etc and away you go

    It averages 3-4 hrs per day. Done by lunchtime!

    Your kid is probably rotting away 90% of the time in school……

    Go for it! You will not regret it.

    Reply
  • JJ January 7, 2014, 11:13 am

    “Ideally, we could gather and form communal unschooling environments with five or six cool kids, and the problem would be solved. I could teach them writing and carpentry, you could teach them filmmaking and math, and some of our other friends would handle the sports, physics, chemistry, and whatever else they want to learn. We’d take plenty of field trips as well.”

    This is a great idea. I would only suggest that your kid (and you) would be better off doing this as an extended learning opportunity rather than trying to replace a formal public school education with it. The beauty of public school IS the social education. If you replace this social education with one with similar “cool kids” and like minded industrious parents, your kid is exposed to only one type of thing.

    Public school (and almost all private schools) teach us how to handle bullies on the school bus. How to find like minded friends on recess. How to carry on while embarrassed after dropping a lunch tray in a crowded dining hall. How to still learn even from an instructor who’s style is rote learning. It’s a gauntlet we all run before entering adulthood. One thing is sure, if you deprive him of it, he won’t run it.

    Reply
    • SanJoseMom January 7, 2014, 9:20 pm

      Great points. My nine year old son has been learning so much from interacting with his schoolmates during recess and lunch time. Several of them setup a company called “Monkey Lounge” last year to collect sticks to build things. They created positions such as founders, CEO and other job titles for everyone who wanted to join, there are things new kids need to do in order to move up the corporate chain :) He learned about corporate politics (seriously), leadership, human relations/behavior (both good and bad) from playing with other kids. Kids will be better off when they are allowed to have more free time to think, play and create.
      I highly recommend reading Madeline Levine’s book “Teach Your Children Well” which provides insights as how parents can look at the big pictures, what are the important skills kids need, and the problems with US education.

      Reply
  • Kristyan January 7, 2014, 11:16 am

    Homeschooling mom of 4 here! It’s been just over a year since we took off for winter break and never went back. It’s one of the the best things we’ve ever done for our family. It changed our entire family life dynamic. We mostly unschool, but I’m always nudging things into their paths and we’re almost always going on adventures together. Sometimes I feel a little guilty at how easy it is and wonder if I’m doing enough, and then my kids shock me at how well they learn on their own with very little outside motivation. We have broad requirements like writing and reading everyday, but they pick their subjects. Their writings facilitate family discussions every evening at the dinner table where we teach each other what we learned that day. We are involved in local homeschool groups and join in on group activities when we feel like it. We’re involved in service projects and in our neighborhood community. We work all the household chores, duties and projects together. I want them to be capable. I want them to know that in real life, learning isn’t going to be shoved in your face for regurgitative testing later. If you don’t know something and you want to, you need to go figure it out- find a class, a book, a mentor, the internet, etc. Take it apart and put it back together. If you want to make money, find a need to fill and learn what you need to in order to fill it well.

    Reply
  • Ed January 7, 2014, 11:31 am

    Make sure you include lots of interaction with other age groups. I’m fairly dismayed at the number of adults who don’t know how to interact with people not their own age. They send their children away to daycare, pre-school, school, then college, and their parents to retirement communities, assisted living centers, then hospice.

    If Little MM likes stories, try taking him to a retirement center and listen to what folks have to say. Very educational and makes their day. Reading to or helping younger kids makes them feel good that someone older pays attention to them and LMM gets a boost passing on some of his wisdom as well.

    Also, if I was starting today, I’d spend a bunch of time with them at a makerspace.

    http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Denver

    Reply
  • Elizabeth Lund January 7, 2014, 11:37 am

    Another plug for unschooling and/or Sudbury education (there is a Sudbury school, Alpine Valley School, in your area, though it’s not right next door). It sounds to me like your son’s main complaint with school is boredom, and I don’t really see how letting him be bored for the next several years will teach him about hard work or working for what you get. In fact, it seems to me that hanging out with his self-directed parents or other kids and adults who are pursuing self-directed goals would be MORE likely to teach him the value of hard work!

    Most of all I’m an advocate for giving kids (yes, even really young kids) choices about their education and listening to what *they* think they need and would prefer. So you might think about just plain asking him how he wants to spend his days and seeing how he responds.

    Reply
  • Erich January 7, 2014, 12:30 pm

    I had a pretty unconventional education. I was home schooled by my teacher mother, and by 7th grade was in our communal church school through 12th grade, where my mother was STILL my teacher (she is still a teacher there and plays the piano at church on sundays. My dad is a deacon. Church membors get a free education). We studied Latin and Greek, Western Civ in addition to the normal stuff. We went to class Tue-Fri, 8-12. My high school was more difficult than my BSBA. Anyway, the hard part was, I desperately wanted to party and meet girls. My class only had 12 people in it. I started working at age 15 and the corruption started there. I met public school kids, got invited to parties, and from then on I pretty much focused on that. I’d like to have had a bit more balance earlier on so that i wasn’t so shocked at what i was missing. The girls in my school, well there were not a lot to choose from, and the only ones who were down were the rejects from the public system who didn’t do their school work and were bound to get booted after a trimester or two. I chased women, experimented too early in drugs (but i didn’t start drinking till after high school), made friends with bad influences. I want my kids to go to public school but would like to bolster/supplement their education with more classical stuff. I mean, we read Tokein stuff in 7th grade it was awesome. And the penguin translation of The Odyssey. Anyway… just be careful with what you do because it can backfire when they turn around 15ish… Either way I got my stuff balanced and ended up with a 3.75 college GPA while working 40 hours a week and partying as hard as possible in the meantime.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

To keep things non-promotional, please use a real name or nickname
(not Blogger @ My Blog Name)

The most useful comments are those written with the goal of learning from or helping out other readers – after reading the whole article and all the earlier comments. Complaints and insults generally won’t make the cut here, but by all means write them on your own blog!

connect

welcome new readers

Take a look around. If you think you are hardcore enough to handle Maximum Mustache, feel free to start at the first article and read your way up to the present using the links at the bottom of each article.

For more casual sampling, have a look at this complete list of all posts since the beginning of time or download the mobile app. Go ahead and click on any titles that intrigue you, and I hope to see you around here more often.

Love, Mr. Money Mustache

latest tweets