How to come out WAY AHEAD when buying a used car
A recent comment from a valued Mr. Money Mustache reader asks something like this,
“I need a new car – we want a Honda CRV, but after looking at the used car listings, it looks like new might be a better deal, especially since it saves me from the need to put much money down”.
As a first note: NOOOOOOOOOO! Don’t Do It!!!!
This question is perfect, because it is exactly the same path many people go down when they end up with a new car. It’s even more perfect because the CRV is the best-selling SUV in the country right now, so many people make the exact same decision.
The car industry makes it very easy and convenient to buy a new car, and by comparison it takes much more legwork to really score in the used car market. How exactly do you buy a used car, without feeling like a sucker walking onto a used car lot and having the little fast talking slickster start harassing you? What if you don’t know much about used cars and how to take care of them?
Here are the steps I recommend, as a lifetime car addict who drives inexpensive cars but secretly covets every Audi and Volkswagen (and especially Tesla) that comes off the line. I love cars so much that I can identify any model currently for sale in the US (and give you all the stats on it), just by seeing a picture of one of its headlights or taillights. Even though I rarely buy them, I love shopping for cars.
Step 1 – Figure out what really is the best car for your needs
You might start with a certain model in mind (Honda CR-V in this case). Figure out what it is you like about this car. For the CR-V, you probably like the large interior space, easy loading/unloading of kids, combined with general Honda quality (it won’t break, it will have good resale, it feels nice to drive). You can start by reading up on the CR-V on a website such as MSN Autos or just doing Google searches for the model.
There you will also find a list of competitors in that category. In this case, the category is “small SUV”, so the competitors are stuff like Jeep Liberty, Ford Escape, Toyota Rav4. As with most Hondas, the CR-V is one of the best buys in this category.
But in South Florida, do you really travel on a lot of extremely rocky and steep mountain roads or deep snow? Or are most of the roads paved there? If so, maybe there is a way to keep the good attributes of a small SUV (interior space), while shedding some of the bad ones (high price, fuel economy rating of only 21/28MPG vs. your Civic’s 32/38MPG).
This fuel difference alone will leave the average person about $8300 poorer after ten years, and that is before factoring in bigger tires, larger amounts of oil, more expensive maintenance and insurance, etc.
When it comes to interior space, three things matter most: rear seat legroom, headroom, and cargo space.
Since your other car is a Nissan Frontier pickup truck, you’ve already got cargo space (and traveling across wild beach areas!) covered. So you might also consider a 2009 Honda Fit, Scion xD, Nissan Versa, or Toyota Matrix. These are all tall, roomy passenger cars with awesome hatchback designs that can easily hold 5 people and stuff in the trunk. If you want even more space, you can click on a Yakima or Thule aerodynamic roof box for only the times you need it – like family camping roadtrips and such. If you commute a lot, consider a 2004-2009 Toyota Prius at 50+ MPG, which also has a surprisingly large passenger and cargo area.
Step 2 – Figure out how much your car should cost used, and how NEW a used car you need.
If you drive a ton of miles, like 12,000 or more per year, you will cover 120k miles in 10 years. That means you should get a fairly new car so you can squeeze those 120 out of it without having anything break. So buy one with less than 60k on it so far. On the other hand, I only drive 4,000 miles per year. So I only need 40,000 over the next ten years. Because of this, I recently bought an older minivan for my construction business that already had 120,000 miles on it. After 10 years, I will still be at only 160k, well within the range of a Honda. As a result, my van only cost me $4800, yet for my purposes it is just as good as a new one worth over $30k.
For our example, let’s stick with the CRV. Because you deserve some luxury, let’s get you one that still matches the newest generation of CR-V. This generation came out in 2007, so I go to Edmunds.com and appraise the used value of a 2007 CR-V (midlevel EX model). Looks like the private party sale value averages around $15,860 in the Ft. Lauderdale area.
Step 3: Search your local Craigslist for Cars that Match
So in this reader’s case, we we look at the South Florida Craigslist for a Honda CR-V, specifying a price range of $10,000 to $16,000, and sort by price (very important, since some used car sellers have a very vivid imagination when it comes to how high a price to ask for their used cars!). You want to pick out a meticulous-sounding, wealthy person who has babied their used car and done all scheduled maintenance, yet is selling it cheap because they don’t really need the money. Dealers are fine too, as long as they have been around a few years and have a clear file with the better business bureau. Your best insurance is simply to get a car with the lowest mileage on the odometer. Here’s a link to a Craigslist search for your model. Looking quickly at those results, I see some of the 2005 models out there actually have really low miles, like 49k, and are only about 10 grand. That is still a beautiful Honda, and compared to buying a new one at 30 grand with finance and taxes, and including money compounding, it will save you more than $30,000 over ten years just to get this used one with 49k miles!
Keep your eye on this craigslist search for a few weeks and call/email any of the ads that sound especially fair, honest, and detailed (good pictures, etc.).
Step 4: Go out and Buy your New Baby
When you are ready to make an offer, type the exact year/mileage of the target car into the Edmunds used car appraiser again, and send the seller an honest offer explaining your reasoning. Do this before you even go to look at their car, to keep yourself in the strongest bargaining position. Then if they accept, you go thoroughly look over/drive the car and if it’s as good as they say, you buy it.
Regarding “saving” a cash cushion by buying a new car – Don’t Do it!!! Any person over the age of 25 should definitely have a cash cushion large enough to live on for a few months AND buy a used car. But you don’t get a cushion like this by buying a new car on credit. That is financial suicide! Instead, think ahead ten years, when you will still have the used car you buy now, AND you’ll have an extra $30,000 in the bank because of not buying the new CRV on credit. AND on top of that, you’ll have an extra $450,000 or more in the bank because of regularly reading the Mr. Money Mustache blog and applying more of his principles.
As a final note, since I think you want a Honda Fit or Toyota Prius and not a Honda CRV, so you can become even richer, here are two pre-set Craigslist searches for those in South Florida too!
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Mr. Money Mustache is a family man living in the United States who retired from work, relatively wealthy, at about age 30. After several years of retirement, he noticed that his still-working peers were envious of his lifestyle. They were making more money than he ever had, yet they were somehow still broke. So he decided to write this blog to educate the world on how it is done.
I think the most obnoxious thing I ever had to do, upon buying a new car, was to accept that I had to pay car payments. The lack of properly efficient used hatchbacks in 2005 and those GM employee pricing things led me to a new Vibe.
But GM doesn’t let you buy cars. They only let you finance them. “But wait!” I cried, “I saved up money. I can pay cash!”
They wouldn’t have it. I could pay 1% for 4 years (a cold, calculated deception) or I could pay it up front. No cash rebate.
So I held my nose and “financed” my car, taking the cash and shoving it in my mortgage, so at least I came out 4% ahead. Even then: “Ew, car payments.”
Greg – Sounds like a very Mustachian strategy for an otherwise annoying situation. I must also admit to borrowing money from a credit card once – during the easy-lending boom, they offered me a balance transfer of the whole credit card limit ($50,000), with no fees or interest for 1 year. So I used it to pay off a house line of credit at the time, and set an auto-transfer back from that same line of credit to pay it back after 51 weeks. It saved about $1800 in interest, so it covered the hassle of me worrying occasionally if I had been a sucker. Nowadays they tack on a hidden 4% fee to similar offers as well as other tricks, rendering them useless except for people looking for quick cash for a party in Vegas before committing suicide.
I’m wondering if you have advice on WHEN to replace a car. My car is close to 11 years old and has about 95000 miles. According to Kelley Blue Book it’s worth around $1,500. Currently it runs OK and haven’t had any major repair needs. Let’s say in a near future it breaks down and I am told I will need $2000 to repair it. Do I repair it or get another (newer) car?
That’s a fun question. In your particular case, the car still sounds pretty new, especially when measured by mileage. When I was shopping for used cars earlier this year, I found many people had racked up 95,000 miles on cars from 2005, and some of the 2000s had mileage over 240,000! So if your car is a somewhat reliable model, it is quite likely you might only be halfway through its life.
As for the hypothetical $2000 repair bill, that’s a tricky one. My general rule is that you should value used car drivable mileage at about 10 cents per mile. So you can feel good about a $2000 repair if you expect it to give you at least 20,000 miles of trouble-free driving. I can’t predict the future, but I would say it is a good bet with a low-mileage car like yours.
Most good new cars give you the first 100,000 miles or so with no repair bills, then the next 100,000 miles require about $5,000 in maintenance. After that, the maintenance amount per mile might rise even more, and you might want to buy a newer used car with about 50-75k miles to get back into that low-cost-per-mile sweet spot.
Need advice. I have made every mistake in the book due to financial stupidity (immigrant from Eastern Europe where there is no such thing called credit) but now I am out of debt, living frugally and saving 50 percent of my pay at least each month.
Now, here is my question. I am driving cheap little 2005 Gm Sunfire with about 85k miles on it which may be worth $2500 now and probably still last another 2 years before major problems.
I have an opportunity to buy 2005 TDI (diesel, 50 percent gas savings) to replace Sunfire for $10,000, $2000 below going market rate from my family member (which also saves me 13 percent tax). Jetta has about 65,000 miles on it and being TDI, it will last at least another 100k miles without much maintenance which is about 6 years of driving with insane fuel economy.
So, do I spend $7500 cash (difference between Jetta purchase and Sunfire sale price obviously) to upgrade my ride, or do I invest my money and wait for Sunfire to die? I must have car due to work description (company chips in $500 per month for expenses, so I win anyway).
Thanks in advance!
Hello D, nice question! I’m a little behind in the questions and answers because there have been many recently but hopefully nobody’s in a rush ;-)
I think you should keep milking your old car as long as possible and pass up on the Jetta Diesel for now and here is why:
- the used private-sale value of a 2005 TDI is actually only about $9200 anyway: http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/jetta/2005/tmv-appraise.html?sub=diesel&style=100477667
- Your Sunfire is still not overly high on mileage at 85,000 miles. The Jetta is only 20,000 less, and neither one is considered a specially reliable car. It would be different if you were going from a 1994 GM car to a 2005 Toyota, but the two you are comparing are both moderate in reliability.
- the TDI rated fuel economy is 31 city/39 highway. The Sunfire rating is 23/32. Combining the averages to 35 Jetta, 28 Sunfire, you’ll only use about 25% fewer gallons of gas, but Diesel costs about 10% more per gallon. So the savings is more like 10-15%, or $200 per year at your level of driving.
I know there are emotional benefits to driving a nice stylish Volkswagen instead a non-stylish Pontiac, but just make sure you know it would be a very expensive upgrade! Much better to just keep your old one and try to drive as little as possible outside of work while you build up some more money.
MMM
I appreciate the advice but it came few hours too late. I got a good deal on Sunfire at $3500 and bought Jetta. I should have clarified that I am in Canada, so prices are bit higher, taxes are lot higher and diesel is cheaper some days.
BTW, from my own experience in driving both Sunfire and Jetta, actual gas mileage is about double. I drove both cars for extended periods and I get 500 kilometers on a tank in Sunfire 10 talons, and always over 1000 on Jetta with the same amount of gas. I reset my trip counter at every fill-up and do the math. I even drove both cars on different occasions from Detroit to Minneapolis once and it tool two tanks in Sunfire and just one in Jetta. Both cars are stick shift so maybe that is why data is different from yours?
Awesome blog. You are inspiration to many, myself included. You were lucky to be smart from the start. I was a dumb buffoon who made every mistake in the book for the first 7 years after moving to capitalism from Eastern Europe, then spent 5 years getting out of the $hit hole and finally started shoveling money to savings 2 years ago. I am now amazed that banks and credit card companies can hypnotize so many people to become financial slaves – working months each year to pay interest to banks. My favorite is when they call zero-down primary residence mortgage – an investment… LOL…
BTW, been to Hamilton many times, and been to your part of Colorado few times as well – don’t blame you for moving there :)
Here’s my situation, maybe you can offer a little advice. We’re moving to Rochester, NY from Ft Knox, KY in a couple months and need (want) to get rid of my 2004 Lincoln LS (89,500) because it’s rear wheel drive (sucks in NY snow). It will probably bring around $10,000 and we don’t owe anything. We bought a 2003 Taurus 2.5 years ago for $4,000 cash and it now has 158,000 (turns out that was a great choice). I’d like to just have one car but my wife is convinced that won’t work and I’m not sure myself (hard to bike in snow however there is a city bus system).
So I’m leaning toward another 2003-2007 Taurus 80k-114k since neither of us has a 9-5 so we don’t do a ton of driving. I will be taking about 4 trips to KY each year (about 1,400 miles round trip). This is a pretty common car and repairs seem to be inexpensive (especially compared to the Lincoln). The used car prices seem to have gone through the roof lately so I’ll probably be $6k-9k.
Thanks.
Hello there Mr. Deppen,
Hmm.. sounds like you have a nice conservative vehicular life with no car loans, so congratulations on that. The Ford Taurus is a good quality car, although a rather gigantic one. I had one as a rental car once – it seems to be designed to comfortably take five unusually large people, plus their luggage, on cross-country road trips. And the fuel consumption, at 20MPG City / 27 HWY, reflects that enormous size.
If you have fewer than ten very large people in your family who need to travel simultaneously, do you need TWO Tauruses? An alternative for your second car could be a 2005 Corolla, still comfortable for up to 5 regular-sized people, and rated at 32 MPG city / 41 HWY, with blue book value similar to a Taurus of the same age.
either way, best of luck and thanks for reading!
MMM
20/27 32/41
Hey. Just came across your blog yesterday through Canadian Dream – Free at 45. Been reading through a few old posts and was very pleased with myself after reading this particular post.
In July I needed to buy a new (used) car. I had my hopes set on a CRV or a Rav-4. (I also test drove a Nissan Rogue.) The CRV was beautiful – leather seats, and loaded. LOVED it. It was hard to walk away from, but it the first vehicle I had test driven. I started feeling a little guilty, that a small SUV was still overkill for my needs. (Just me and my Weimaraner.) I started looking at smaller hatchbacks and finally decided on an ’08 Matrix. Finding one was actually more difficult that I thought, because I really wanted a manual-transmission, and a sun-roof. I live in SW Ontario, and finally located one at a Toyota dealer in Toronto – almost 2 hours away. I emailed them to ask some questions and make sure it was a non-smoking vehicle. Then I asked a friend who lives in downtown TO to check it out for me. (I didn’t want to make a second trip there.)
I contacted the dealer again, told them what I was willing to offer, and said flat out I wouldn’t haggle, and wouldn’t pay their $300 admin fee. Take it or leave it. (They tried to push the admin fee and I refused.)
So, I now have my fuel efficient and extremely spacious new (used) Matrix. I do wish it had heated leather seats, (SO much easier with a dog), but the extra cash left in my bank account from the original purchase, and the extra cash left in my wallet at the gas station at every refill is well worth the trade-off.
Loving your writing MMM! So glad I found you!
Thanks Valerie.. great story. I also feel the same way – I drove around quite a bit in a brand-new 2011 CR-V this summer (in Canada, in fact!), and it was very cozy and fast. But it’s just too big, expensive, and fuel-thirsty for the needs of non-millionaires. In my view, that should be the biggest and fanciest passenger vehicle that should exist – I couldn’t imagine anything nicer existing. It could be something to look forward to as a present to yourself once you are wealthy enough to stop working.
But even the Matrix, which I have also driven plenty, is a fabulous, roomy, and sporty car. I’m curious about how leather seats are useful for a dog owner. Wouldn’t you just want cloth seats, which you outfit with some vinyl or scuba-material covers which are immune to claws and dirt? You can even get seat covers with built-in 12 volt heaters, a nice frugal way to get the same luxury without paying for it in the sticker price.
Quality leather (in car and in home) are the way to go with owning a dog (and in general) I find. (Cheapo bonded leather will not last, and not worth paying any more than cloth.)
I have a 17 year old leather couch in my living room. I consider the scratches ‘character’ and think it still looks great. Visualize a pre-distressed leather ‘Roots’ chair. (You’re Canadian(ish) – so I know you know what Roots is.)
My previous car had leather seats. Leather will over time get scratched up with a dog’s claws (one reason why used is another way to go) but it never gets dog hair stuck to it like cloth. It’s super easy to keep clean – whether dogs or kids are involved.
My dog doesn’t shed much at all, but I had my brother’s dog in my car over the weekend she snuck into the front seat for a minute and I was appalled at the dog hair when she got out! It just sticks to the cloth seats! And her white fur on my dark navy seats was brutal. I actually gasped when I saw it!
I don’t like seat covers/protectors – they just look sloppy. Also my dog doesn’t sit in the front seat and he doesn’t shed much at all. The back seat is left down and he has the whole back hatch area to roam around. He’s a big dog, so he occasionally likes to stick his head out the sunroof as well. (The Matrix has a hard plastic in the back hatch and when the seats go down. I did have to go out buy a large rubber bottomed utility mat from Canadian Tire for $30 and cut it to shape, so my dog wasn’t slipping around in the back.)
“You can even get seat covers with built-in 12 volt heaters”. I have one! :) It is a little sloppy looking I feel, and it’s not quite the same as heated seats, but when the winter is particularly brutal it does the trick.
I totally agree with this post. I really really wanted to buy a 2011 Honda Fit. But dealerships were not aggressively selling them since the 2010 hadn’t done so well and Honda had put some limitations on what they could or could not do. I was also trying to arrange to buy something right upon arrival in my new city so I was trying to deal with the stealerships over the internet like so many websites recommend. What an exercise in frustration, they will not even tell you the price beyond MSRP even though you know they can go lower. I got so fed up with them I just bought a used car from the internet. I got cash from the bank, test drove the car, gave the guy the money and he gave me the title. It took 30 minutes. I will never go to a stealership ever again.
I enjoyed this post and everyone’s comments afterwards. I just recently discovered this blog, so I hope you don’t mind my posting a comment 6 months after the original post.
Anyway, my 1994 Honda Accord got stolen last week. In broad daylight at 9am, right in front of our house on a tree-lined quiet street. Sad day. Anyway, the insurance company is considering it gone forever, and they are going to cut us a check sometime next week. (I’m going to push for $3000 but I’m expecting somewhere around $2500 from them.)
Other key info:
(1) I have $3000 in a designated “car fund” already.
(2) I have a wife & 2 kids now, but in 10 years we may need more than 5 seatbelts.
(3) I technically own a 1995 Volvo sedan*, but it’s located in Pennsylvania (about 3000 miles away) so it’s not really accessible. (Resale = $3500)
(4) I plan to move to PA soon, no later than January.
(5) We have access to a borrowed pickup truck and also have 2 mountain bikes but no trailer. We also have a great social network locally and many neighbors have offered to let us borrow their cars.
(6) Both the stolen Honda and the faraway Volvo have over 200,000 miles on them.
So my question is, what would MMM do with the insurance money?
[1] Immediately replace the old Honda with a financed 2012 Escalade. (Just kidding!!)
[2] Save the insurance money in the car fund, but don’t buy anything—just wait it out, move to PA, and resume driving the Volvo. In the meantime, borrow a car when absolutely necessary, like taking kids to the doctor or visiting the in-laws over Thanksgiving.
[3a] Sell the Volvo and use the proceeds, plus the insurance money and car fund ($9000 in all), to buy a newer vehicle. Factor in the current family size (4) and future family size in the next ten years (4-6).
[3b] Same as [3a] but ignore the future family size and just buy something economical with 5 seatbelts.
And finally, if you would recommend [3a] or [3b], do you have any great suggestions for efficient cars in the $9000 price range?
* The Volvo was a recent purchase from a family member and I don’t know its maintenance cost/history, but I’ve heard horror stories of the costs of maintaining a Volvo. Also, it’s an automatic and the MPG is in the low 20s.
Hi DP!,
I’d probably do 3b, and look for a Toyota Matrix or its identical mechanical twin the Pontiac Vibe (same car, nicely lower resale value), Scion xA or xB, Toyota Yaris 5-door, Nissan Versa Hatchback, Honda Fit, or 2004 Toyota Prius.
For a warmer climate or smaller family, (or if you are a really badass family), I would have suggested a less costly car ($5-6k). But there are lots of you, so cars end up getting used more. Also, if you do many things within 2 miles of your house (even groceries!), a bike trailer will be HUGELY profitable, as it will drastically cut down on your short car trips. You can get a gigantic bike trailer that holds 2 kids up to 5 years old, such as the Burley D’Lite.
Then, many years down the road if you do indeed have more children, you can change car strategies. Transaction costs for switching between used cars are low, so it’s best to optimize for your current life situation, then change later if needed.
Thanks for the tips. Just curious what you might recommend in that $5-6K range.
(And also, do you have any suggestions for where to find these cars? I am turning up nothing on Craigslist and sites like AutoTrader in search of the manual hatchbacks you described. )
A great article!
I am looking for a used car to buy and would like to have some advice on it.
I’m in Los Angeles-Torrance. My requirements/constraints are as follows… in that order…
1. Resale Value:
I may leave USA and go back to my home country in 2 years. So I need to sell the car at that time. I won’t be very happy to take a depreciation hit of more than $1000 per year. Hence I could not buy a salvage title, so looking only for clean title car.
2. Maintenance cost
Maintenance cost should be low/minimal because I would be using it just for 2 years and don’t want to spend much on maintenance and bargain for that expense during selling the vehicle.
3. Budget
I am willing to spend anything less than 9k. I can pay more but simply don’t like the idea of locking my money into a car that’s not going to be with me for long term. So, I will stick with 9k.
4. MPG
It should give at least 24+ city MPG.
Now the things that I can compromise on,
I’m single and hence space is not my concern, as far as friends are concerned we are young and could be squeezed in happily :)
I can pay 9k cash. I’m buying the car because I ‘need’ it, LA is spread across many acres and I feel if you don’t have a car you just cannot do any other activity than office work! I plan to take college and take some evening/weekend classes as well. So the utility value is the first thing in my mind – comfort and luxury is what I can compromise on.
This is going to be my first car. From what I have analyzed till now, Honda Civic should be my first choice but below 9k . Corolla, Matrix, Yaris, Sentra and Versa also interest me, but not sure how to rank them considering my constraints.
I’ve learnt a lot from Mr.Mustache and people here, hoping for some more great advice!! I’m so glad I found this blog!
Hi, thanks for all the informative help – really really appreciated. One question: could you please explain how you managed to get craigslist results sorted by price? Maybe it’s because I’m using a Canadian craigslist page? I just don’t see any function to sort search results by any method.
Thanks :)
Hmm.. how odd! I just checked by sorting on Denver vs. Toronto Craigslist for Toyota Prius just as an example.. and you are right, the sort button is only on the US version!
But I found a workaround for the Canadians: just add the string “&sort=priceasc” to the URL you see after searching, so you’ll end up with something like this:
http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/search/cta/tor?sort=priceasc&query=prius&srchType=T
Cool, eh?
I have a currently financed ’03 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with a KBB of $4397 and I owe $5527. Only 113,500 miles on it. I drive quite a bit (roughly 20-22k mi/yr) I’m wondering if it would be better to sell this via Craigslist with a starting price of 5500 and see where it gets me. I would rather have a more fuel efficient vehicle such as Honda Civic/Accord. My fiancee has a ’00 Civic Ex which I drove prior to getting this car and I definitely miss the $40 tank/week rather than the $60 fill up with the jeep that gets me Fri-Wed.
I have about 1200 in savings and roughly $4-5k coming at tax time that I would’ve used to pay off this Jeep. (I only make roughly 20k/yr)
If I sell the Jeep now, I have a loaner car that my parents have agreed to let me drive provided that I do any/all maintenance, tires, etc on the vehicle which is no problem. They understand me wanting to get out of debt and are willing to help in any way posible.
Should I sell the Jeep now?, wait to pay it off at tax time?, find a decent Honda with good/low mileage?.. if you could help me in any way I’d appreciate it!
Oh yeah! You should drop that baby like a hot potato!
Combining your extreme gas guzzler with that extremely large amount of driving on a 20k salary, you are basically living only to drive right now. This will change your life!
The next step will be figuring out how to drive much less..
Hey MMM,
I recently discovered your blog, and I must say it speaks to my soul. Great stuff!
But now, I have a confession. Last year, I bought a new car. Like not “new to me new”, new new. From the dealership. Pause for reaction. Now I know it’s not very Mustachian, but hear me out because I’m the last person who would have thought I would EVER buy a new car. In fact just months prior, I had sent my sister a detailed email outlining why buying a lightly used car was the way to go. But here we are.
My old car was a paid off 2003 Ford Escape, that I had bought with cash used from a family member in 2006. It seemed like a great car for me at the time, but it got horrible gas milage, especially in the mountains where I spend a lot of my free time, and I had just taken a new job that would involve a 40-mile (one-way) commute – I know, I know – dealing with that one as we speak. It was also pushing 120k miles, and I was getting nervous that expensive maintenance was just around the corner. Anyway, my main criteria for my next car were the following: 1) it had to be a manual transmission (because I didn’t know how to drive one and I figured the only way to become proficient was to own one), 2) it had to get great gas mileage, and 3) I wanted a small car, but one with enough cargo capacity to haul my friends and gear (skis, climbing gear, whatever) to the mountains every weekend.
After doing some online research, I quickly decided that a Honda Fit would suit my needs nicely. It was fuel efficient, reliable, and the Fit, in my opinion, is especially well designed with regard to efficient use of cargo space. It’s a small car, but it doesn’t FEEL small. (So much so, that I actually had a hard time parallel parking it for a while because you feel bigger than you are.) Anyway, once I decided on a Fit, I started looking for used options with fairly low mileage. The two biggest issues I ran into were that most of the used models available were of the Sport variety (not the base model – which costs several thousand dollars less) or had an automatic transmission. Because of that, the used prices I was finding (on models ranging between 2-3 years old) were actually MORE than a brand new 2012 base model with manual transmission. Coupled with the fact that buying new made it easier for me to negotiate, I decided this was the way to go.
As a Mustachian at heart (before I even knew what that meant), I did my research and long story short, got an amazingly good deal on my trade-in and negotiation of purchase price (as it’s really the bottom line that matters – not the trade-in or the purchase price alone). It probably helped that the sales guy underestimated me when I showed up alone to buy a car I didn’t REALLY know how to drive – the test drive was, let’s say, interesting! I was able to pay cash, and ended up getting a much better deal and a brand new car to boot than had I gone with a used model. Feel free to judge, but be warned – I have a spreadsheet to back up my decision. I am an engineer by training, too (I’m not sure it’s possible for me to make a major life decision without a spreadsheet).
BTW, I am coming up on the one year car anniversary, and I still love my Fit!
Haha, nice story FG. I do think you probably made one of the best new car purchases possible. But the only way to really win in car ownership is to figure out how to design most of the driving out of your life.
Once you do this, you will find that your car hardly gets used, and it will be hard to justify owning such a new car: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/11/28/new-cars-and-auto-financing-stupid-or-sensible/
I totally agree that eliminating most driving is the way to go. Since posting my original comment, I have moved closer to work so now it is much more reasonable to take the bus or ride my bike to work. I’m working towards becoming a full time bike commuter, but I’m not there yet.
So yes, during the week, I could get away without a car, but the weekends are the part I struggle with figuring out how to make work car-free. I spend nearly every weekend of the year in the mountains (1-3 hour drive depending where I’m going) either skiing or climbing. These activities are extremely important to me and are a major component of keeping me fit and active. I carpool most of the time, but not always. If I didn’t have a car, I would always have to count on someone else to drive (and pick me up with all my gear). I’m just not ready to go there yet.
I’m a research scholar at Purdue and I need to buy a used car under $5000 for commuting to class , grocery shopping and hauling stuff from Goodwill Stores etc. I’ve been following your posts and Honda Fit seems good … is it OK for long distance drives and in the snow ?
Thanks
Jay
If you had asked me three weeks ago if I agreed with this post, I would have said a resounding YES! However, since having BOTH of our cars go out on us, I now believe buying new CAN be a fantastic option. We purchased our 1st car from a family member. It is a ’97 Camry and came with under 70K miles on it. That was about 5 years ago. It now has about 115K miles, and the transmission gave out with no warning. Next we purchased a 95 Escort for $2k with only 45k miles on it. We knew the person selling it, and from what my mechanically-inclined husband could tell, was in good working order. We’ve had it less than a year, and it already needs extensive work. All of this to say, mileage doesn’t equal everything. Even if you drive something and take a look, it doesn’t mean you aren’t getting a lemon. For us, it’s worth putting in all of our cash for a new car that comes with a warranty rather than still putting thousands of dollars into cars that will see no return on investment.
I’m not so sure about that line of reasoning, Megyn…
If you had bought new cars, the depreciation and opportunity cost alone would have been MUCH larger than the cost of having used cars which need repairs. And your situation is a rare one – you’ve just had two instances of bad luck that happened to occur close together in time.
There is almost no possible situation in which you save money by buying a new car, as long as you choose reasonable used cars. But read on, and you’ll find out which ones are the best bets, see “top 10 cars for smart people”.
Even several thousand dollars or euros for repairs will be MUCH less then the typical depreciation of a new car. Then, most people do not buy a new car in cash, but finance it, so there is interest. Even if they bought knew, their money could be investet, so there are huge capital costs. Thridly, a new or financed car will have to be insured for fully comprehensive insurance, meaning higher insurance as well. Depreciation, capital costs and insurance will be SEVERAL THOUSAND dollar/euro per year.
You will definitely not pay that much for repairs on a beater, especially if you have some knowledge and an internet forum to ask for help and to buy used parts from…
I’ve got a 2007 Subaru Forester we’ve had since new. 85k miles on her now.
It has been great for getting up our steep snow covered drive in winter, the reason we bought it, and for hauling our daughter to and from university these last few years. One more year left of that.
It has also been very useful in carting off stuff we are unloading now that the house is sold.
With the house now sold, we won’t be needing the 4WD to get up the hill. 2WD and snow tires will serve us just fine in winter now.
On the other hand, we are also giving up the garage. The Subaru, or what ever replaces it, will be living outside 24/7. Not something I’d want for a new(er) car, but perfect for the age of the Subie.
We could get better mileage with a 2WD drive something, but we know this car and its history. Plus it has been flawlessly reliable. And it’s cargo capacity will be useful for the next year or so.
So, worth making a change? And, if so, into what?
Oh, looks like ol’ JL is swooping in on the older articles now!
Since I happen to have a rough idea of your life situation, I can guess that you’re probably not too worried about a few thousand one way or the other. But still, just for car choice purity, here’s an auto prescription:
The Forester has a pretty amazing cargo area, outdoing many bigger SUVs. Among more fuel-efficient cars, you might find competitive amounts of space only in the Scion XB (2007+). Good, smaller hatchback designs can be found in the Toyota Matrix, Honda Fit, Mazda3, Prius, and a few others listed here: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/19/top-10-cars-for-smart-people/
When you have a surplus of money, it is hard for some people to get excited about the difference between 25MPG and 35MPG, since it’s only a few hundred dollars in fuel annually. But I still do. I think I get about $10.00 of pleasure from each gallon of gas saved, so my Scion xA makes me very happy, averaging about 42MPG.. Versus the 2004 Subaru Impreza wagon I sold a few years ago that had a hard time cracking 28 even with hypermiling.
Well, I didn’t get to where I am by NOT worrying about a few thousand $$$ here and there. :)
I guess my concern is that with the Subaru I know I have a good vehicle because it’s been in my care since day one and it has been hands down the best most reliable car we’ve ever owned.
Still, it only averages about 22 mpg.
So the question is whether the risk of an unknown car is worth the better milage.
Or maybe I’ll just pick up this sweet 2007 Cadillac DTS on Craig’s at the moment: http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/3671793143.html
Also consider using cargurus.com to both find and accurately price used cars in your area. If you play with it for a while you will find you can plot out price fluctuations by month, region, and model to better time your purchase if possible (generally Dec -Feb is best). Edmunds.com has a button for “true cost of ownership” for each model a year or more old that can help you a lot in estimating how good a “deal” some models really are. Some used cars are MORE expensive overall than a new version of same model (BMW I’m looking at you). Three year lease cycles dump a pile of some models on the market at the same time a new model may be arriving, this is a perfect time for high leverage on a used car purchase. After safety and reliability, cost of ownership is the priority. A little free research can go a long way. Cheers.